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	<title>Comments on: Would you criticize a brand you covet as a client?</title>
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	<description>Marketing ideas for navigating a consumer driven world</description>
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		<title>By: edward boches</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/would-you-criticize-a-brand-you-covet-as-a-client/comment-page-1#comment-1910</link>
		<dc:creator>edward boches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 18:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2257#comment-1910</guid>
		<description>C.C.
Thanks for weighing in.  As someone who knows, talks and writes about passion, your comments are well founded.  There is definitely the balancing act between being constructive and being thoughtlessly critical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C.C.<br />
Thanks for weighing in.  As someone who knows, talks and writes about passion, your comments are well founded.  There is definitely the balancing act between being constructive and being thoughtlessly critical.</p>
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		<title>By: David Saxe</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/would-you-criticize-a-brand-you-covet-as-a-client/comment-page-1#comment-1908</link>
		<dc:creator>David Saxe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2257#comment-1908</guid>
		<description>Always thankful for the client perspective, Tom. 

I see the benefit for the brand when a customer complains or criticizing privately. Some stronger brands that place a genuine emphasis on customer service may be responsive to a private complaint, but I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a stretch to suggest that United Airline&#039;s response to Dave Carroll would&#039;ve been much less impactful had he just e-mailed his video to helpdesk@unitedairlines.com. Probably too much to expect from a customer (even a loyal one). 

If I&#039;m an agency staffer, however, and wanting to offer truly constructive criticism without dragging the brand through the mud, I&#039;m going to go where I can guarantee visibility to change agents within the brand&#039;s organization. If your company is committed to considering submissions from and responding to these private options, you&#039;ve done your part to provide and maintain the platform. Again, this doesn&#039;t apply to 99% of your customers, but as an agency rep, if I&#039;m aware of those private options, those are the routes I should take. Assuming these pre-conditions, taking the public road (blogging,tweeting) doesn&#039;t do a bit of good for the brand - only the blogger/tweeter. Probably shouldn&#039;t expect to see any relationships blossom out of that kind of honesty.
.-= David Saxe&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://davidsaxe.wordpress.com/2009/10/05/love-what-you-do-its-not-just-idealism/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Love What You Do: It’s Not Just Idealism&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Always thankful for the client perspective, Tom. </p>
<p>I see the benefit for the brand when a customer complains or criticizing privately. Some stronger brands that place a genuine emphasis on customer service may be responsive to a private complaint, but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a stretch to suggest that United Airline&#8217;s response to Dave Carroll would&#8217;ve been much less impactful had he just e-mailed his video to <a href="mailto:helpdesk@unitedairlines.com">helpdesk@unitedairlines.com</a>. Probably too much to expect from a customer (even a loyal one). </p>
<p>If I&#8217;m an agency staffer, however, and wanting to offer truly constructive criticism without dragging the brand through the mud, I&#8217;m going to go where I can guarantee visibility to change agents within the brand&#8217;s organization. If your company is committed to considering submissions from and responding to these private options, you&#8217;ve done your part to provide and maintain the platform. Again, this doesn&#8217;t apply to 99% of your customers, but as an agency rep, if I&#8217;m aware of those private options, those are the routes I should take. Assuming these pre-conditions, taking the public road (blogging,tweeting) doesn&#8217;t do a bit of good for the brand &#8211; only the blogger/tweeter. Probably shouldn&#8217;t expect to see any relationships blossom out of that kind of honesty.<br />
.-= David Saxe&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://davidsaxe.wordpress.com/2009/10/05/love-what-you-do-its-not-just-idealism/" rel="nofollow">Love What You Do: It’s Not Just Idealism</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: C.C. Chapman</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/would-you-criticize-a-brand-you-covet-as-a-client/comment-page-1#comment-1904</link>
		<dc:creator>C.C. Chapman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 11:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2257#comment-1904</guid>
		<description>It is a very valid concern for sure and one that I think about all the time when I write about brands, but at the same time I think you and I share the same conclusion.

Anytime I&#039;m complaining about a brand online I&#039;m doing so in the hopes that it can be made better. I&#039;m always quick to point out that it could be better and that I hope it is.

When I speak about Passion I always point out that if someone is passionate enough to complain about a brand then they will be just as passionate to praise them if you can fix the problem. Yet, you see SO little of this happening.

You have to think long term about anything you say, but you also shouldn&#039;t completely censor yourself. It&#039;s a balance that isn&#039;t always maintained.
.-= C.C. Chapman&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cc-chapman.com/2009/10/03/the-power-of-one-little-tweet/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Power of One Little Tweet&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a very valid concern for sure and one that I think about all the time when I write about brands, but at the same time I think you and I share the same conclusion.</p>
<p>Anytime I&#8217;m complaining about a brand online I&#8217;m doing so in the hopes that it can be made better. I&#8217;m always quick to point out that it could be better and that I hope it is.</p>
<p>When I speak about Passion I always point out that if someone is passionate enough to complain about a brand then they will be just as passionate to praise them if you can fix the problem. Yet, you see SO little of this happening.</p>
<p>You have to think long term about anything you say, but you also shouldn&#8217;t completely censor yourself. It&#8217;s a balance that isn&#8217;t always maintained.<br />
.-= C.C. Chapman&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://www.cc-chapman.com/2009/10/03/the-power-of-one-little-tweet/" rel="nofollow">The Power of One Little Tweet</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Fredricks</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/would-you-criticize-a-brand-you-covet-as-a-client/comment-page-1#comment-1902</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Fredricks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 21:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2257#comment-1902</guid>
		<description>Interesting question, I have direct experience.

I once was approached by a recruiter for a position with Heavy.com. It didn&#039;t work out, I was not a right fit for them from my understanding. 

I liked the idea of Heavy.com. I liked that the old CEO was a native of my hometown, Westport CT. After looking at them closely, I found that they we&#039;re not an honest company with how they collect traffic, and what they sell as an audience to advertisers.

I let it go, and figured I was better off for not having to fix their traffic problem. 

A year later I read an article from Beet.tv, by Andy Plesser. The article was essentially a PR hit for Heavy.com, stating that they were one of the 10 fastest growing websites according to ComScore. I smelled a fish.

With little effort, I uncovered that they were in-fact still faking their numbers, washing their traffic through bogus sites and essentially committing arbitrage.

This discovery drove me nuts. One, I read it from what I had considered to be a credible source. Two, I had already gone down this road.

My reaction was to immediately post a blog calling out the clear lie, and presenting the essential elements for someone to go and identify this themselves. 

After criticizing them, so publicly and boldly, I would still feel comfortable working for them. I would not of changed my behavior, and I stand by my actions.

Why? I think their are enough people who placate brands, bosses and bureaucrats. While it is always good to use tact, which I clearly did not, it is just as important to be authentic.

You know, corporations are usually so bland and boring because people conform. You can tell when an agency conforms for a brand, and does not challenge them. The ads and campaigns are just as bland and boring as the culture that is created by not challenging and asking for change.

Essentially, if you cannot provoke, challenge and to some extent question, then why would you even want to work with them?

I get it, your job is to bring them in. By &#039;your&#039;, I mean that Execs must bow to the dollar. You need to make friends and all the like. That known, do you want to work for every brand?

So, tangents been had, I say this. Be honest, don&#039;t fake the funk, and Heavy.com, when you&#039;re tired of bullshitting the Adworld, give me a call.

Thanks,


B</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting question, I have direct experience.</p>
<p>I once was approached by a recruiter for a position with Heavy.com. It didn&#8217;t work out, I was not a right fit for them from my understanding. </p>
<p>I liked the idea of Heavy.com. I liked that the old CEO was a native of my hometown, Westport CT. After looking at them closely, I found that they we&#8217;re not an honest company with how they collect traffic, and what they sell as an audience to advertisers.</p>
<p>I let it go, and figured I was better off for not having to fix their traffic problem. </p>
<p>A year later I read an article from Beet.tv, by Andy Plesser. The article was essentially a PR hit for Heavy.com, stating that they were one of the 10 fastest growing websites according to ComScore. I smelled a fish.</p>
<p>With little effort, I uncovered that they were in-fact still faking their numbers, washing their traffic through bogus sites and essentially committing arbitrage.</p>
<p>This discovery drove me nuts. One, I read it from what I had considered to be a credible source. Two, I had already gone down this road.</p>
<p>My reaction was to immediately post a blog calling out the clear lie, and presenting the essential elements for someone to go and identify this themselves. </p>
<p>After criticizing them, so publicly and boldly, I would still feel comfortable working for them. I would not of changed my behavior, and I stand by my actions.</p>
<p>Why? I think their are enough people who placate brands, bosses and bureaucrats. While it is always good to use tact, which I clearly did not, it is just as important to be authentic.</p>
<p>You know, corporations are usually so bland and boring because people conform. You can tell when an agency conforms for a brand, and does not challenge them. The ads and campaigns are just as bland and boring as the culture that is created by not challenging and asking for change.</p>
<p>Essentially, if you cannot provoke, challenge and to some extent question, then why would you even want to work with them?</p>
<p>I get it, your job is to bring them in. By &#8216;your&#8217;, I mean that Execs must bow to the dollar. You need to make friends and all the like. That known, do you want to work for every brand?</p>
<p>So, tangents been had, I say this. Be honest, don&#8217;t fake the funk, and Heavy.com, when you&#8217;re tired of bullshitting the Adworld, give me a call.</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>B</p>
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		<title>By: edward boches</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/would-you-criticize-a-brand-you-covet-as-a-client/comment-page-1#comment-1898</link>
		<dc:creator>edward boches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2257#comment-1898</guid>
		<description>Tobe:
Agree we should all think before we post.  Just as long as our default position isn&#039;t one of fear or unwillingness to speak our minds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tobe:<br />
Agree we should all think before we post.  Just as long as our default position isn&#8217;t one of fear or unwillingness to speak our minds.</p>
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		<title>By: edward boches</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/would-you-criticize-a-brand-you-covet-as-a-client/comment-page-1#comment-1897</link>
		<dc:creator>edward boches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2257#comment-1897</guid>
		<description>I think there&#039;s a big difference between publicly criticizing a client (idiotic and insane) and making constructive, public statements about a brand that you have some sort of encounter with, even though somewhere in the back of your mind you may hope that someday you get a shot at it.  I&#039;m not talking about being evil or disrespectful, simply raising a point or starting a conversation that might have some merit. Seems to me that&#039;s what social media and the conversation is all about. We&#039;ve all seen the examples of bad judgment come back and haunt the person who rants or disses a company right after a job interview, but that&#039;s not what I&#039;m talking about.  Seems there should be an acceptable way to make a point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s a big difference between publicly criticizing a client (idiotic and insane) and making constructive, public statements about a brand that you have some sort of encounter with, even though somewhere in the back of your mind you may hope that someday you get a shot at it.  I&#8217;m not talking about being evil or disrespectful, simply raising a point or starting a conversation that might have some merit. Seems to me that&#8217;s what social media and the conversation is all about. We&#8217;ve all seen the examples of bad judgment come back and haunt the person who rants or disses a company right after a job interview, but that&#8217;s not what I&#8217;m talking about.  Seems there should be an acceptable way to make a point.</p>
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		<title>By: tobe</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/would-you-criticize-a-brand-you-covet-as-a-client/comment-page-1#comment-1896</link>
		<dc:creator>tobe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2257#comment-1896</guid>
		<description>I had an uncle who says to my aunt, &quot;Think before you speak.&quot; I&#039;ll extrapolate this to, &quot;Think before you type.&quot; Postings are forever and so is the memory of the people you write about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had an uncle who says to my aunt, &#8220;Think before you speak.&#8221; I&#8217;ll extrapolate this to, &#8220;Think before you type.&#8221; Postings are forever and so is the memory of the people you write about.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Phillips</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/would-you-criticize-a-brand-you-covet-as-a-client/comment-page-1#comment-1895</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 20:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2257#comment-1895</guid>
		<description>I guess I&#039;m old fashioned. It&#039;s in poor taste to &#039;byte&#039; the hand that feeds you. 

Carol Phillips
@carol_phillips
.-= Carol Phillips&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/MillennialMktg/~3/XEuV2HoRzMk/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;What Mad Men Tells Us About Why Millennials Feel Special&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I&#8217;m old fashioned. It&#8217;s in poor taste to &#8216;byte&#8217; the hand that feeds you. </p>
<p>Carol Phillips<br />
@carol_phillips<br />
.-= Carol Phillips&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/MillennialMktg/~3/XEuV2HoRzMk/" rel="nofollow">What Mad Men Tells Us About Why Millennials Feel Special</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: edward boches</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/would-you-criticize-a-brand-you-covet-as-a-client/comment-page-1#comment-1894</link>
		<dc:creator>edward boches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 18:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2257#comment-1894</guid>
		<description>Tom:
Great summation of this conversation.  Brands want to excel; good ones welcome constructive criticism; we should offer it up in a productive manner; social media can be a soapbox for ranting (sometimes good); but better off it used responsibly to have a voice, express and opinion, advance the conversation and inspire change for the better.  Thanks for sharing the client perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom:<br />
Great summation of this conversation.  Brands want to excel; good ones welcome constructive criticism; we should offer it up in a productive manner; social media can be a soapbox for ranting (sometimes good); but better off it used responsibly to have a voice, express and opinion, advance the conversation and inspire change for the better.  Thanks for sharing the client perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Cunniff</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/would-you-criticize-a-brand-you-covet-as-a-client/comment-page-1#comment-1891</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Cunniff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 16:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2257#comment-1891</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a take from the client side. It&#039;s a lot tougher than it looks to deliver great products day in and day out. And it&#039;s even tougher for companies to make decisions that please everybody. Occasionally, we&#039;re going to make a dumb mistake.

If you don&#039;t like something, we offer a kabillion ways for you to give us feedback privately. Including this thing called the Interwebs. Trust me when I say at my company we take that feedback VERY seriously. We review it in team meetings. We&#039;re hugely grateful when a consumer points out a genuine problem that we can address.

As nutty as this may sound, no company WANTS to suck. Every brand wants to be loved. 

To borrow Edward&#039;s analogy of sending a meal back at a restaurant, there are a couple of different ways of doing that. You can kick over your table and shout at the top of your lungs &quot;Luigi&#039;s Ristorante SUCKS!&quot; Or, you can quietly let your server know you&#039;re disappointed. If the restaurant is smart they&#039;ll do everything they can so that you can leave the restaurant happy.

Personally, I wouldn&#039;t reject an agency forever because a staffer crapped on my brand publicly once or twice. But if he or she made it a crusade that would be a different story. There are too many talented people out there to pick somebody who&#039;s a knucklehead.

Social Media offers consumers a lot of power. But shouldn&#039;t power also imply a responsibility to use it carefully?
.-= Tom Cunniff&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://tjcnyc.wordpress.com/2009/09/18/is-social-media-too-big-for-its-own-good/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Is Social Media Too Big For Its Own Good?&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a take from the client side. It&#8217;s a lot tougher than it looks to deliver great products day in and day out. And it&#8217;s even tougher for companies to make decisions that please everybody. Occasionally, we&#8217;re going to make a dumb mistake.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t like something, we offer a kabillion ways for you to give us feedback privately. Including this thing called the Interwebs. Trust me when I say at my company we take that feedback VERY seriously. We review it in team meetings. We&#8217;re hugely grateful when a consumer points out a genuine problem that we can address.</p>
<p>As nutty as this may sound, no company WANTS to suck. Every brand wants to be loved. </p>
<p>To borrow Edward&#8217;s analogy of sending a meal back at a restaurant, there are a couple of different ways of doing that. You can kick over your table and shout at the top of your lungs &#8220;Luigi&#8217;s Ristorante SUCKS!&#8221; Or, you can quietly let your server know you&#8217;re disappointed. If the restaurant is smart they&#8217;ll do everything they can so that you can leave the restaurant happy.</p>
<p>Personally, I wouldn&#8217;t reject an agency forever because a staffer crapped on my brand publicly once or twice. But if he or she made it a crusade that would be a different story. There are too many talented people out there to pick somebody who&#8217;s a knucklehead.</p>
<p>Social Media offers consumers a lot of power. But shouldn&#8217;t power also imply a responsibility to use it carefully?<br />
.-= Tom Cunniff&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://tjcnyc.wordpress.com/2009/09/18/is-social-media-too-big-for-its-own-good/" rel="nofollow">Is Social Media Too Big For Its Own Good?</a> =-.</p>
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