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	<title>Comments on: Should you crowdsource even if you’re only gonna get crap?</title>
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	<link>http://edwardboches.com/should-you-crowdsource-even-if-you%e2%80%99re-only-gonna-get-crap</link>
	<description>Marketing ideas for navigating a consumer driven world</description>
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		<title>By: Armando Alves</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/should-you-crowdsource-even-if-you%e2%80%99re-only-gonna-get-crap/comment-page-1#comment-2590</link>
		<dc:creator>Armando Alves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 03:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2787#comment-2590</guid>
		<description>Hi Edward,

Actually i&#039;ve checked the latest Forrester data and it&#039;s closer to 20%. Of internet users. I always feel that we&#039;re always focusing on Gen-Y, and the big share of income is on Gen-X and Baby Boomers (and these hardly know what&#039;s crowdsourcing).

Although many people are creating, it&#039;s not so much the quantity but rather the quality. At the end of the day, regular Internet audience goes to Hulu or ComedyCentral to get their daily fix of entertainment. Professionaly produced. Not crowdsourced.

There&#039;s space for crowdsourced projects, but let&#039;s not get too excited. Any responsible brand manager should have a balanced share of what&#039;s produced by a agency team, and then crowdsource some special projects, if fit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Edward,</p>
<p>Actually i&#8217;ve checked the latest Forrester data and it&#8217;s closer to 20%. Of internet users. I always feel that we&#8217;re always focusing on Gen-Y, and the big share of income is on Gen-X and Baby Boomers (and these hardly know what&#8217;s crowdsourcing).</p>
<p>Although many people are creating, it&#8217;s not so much the quantity but rather the quality. At the end of the day, regular Internet audience goes to Hulu or ComedyCentral to get their daily fix of entertainment. Professionaly produced. Not crowdsourced.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s space for crowdsourced projects, but let&#8217;s not get too excited. Any responsible brand manager should have a balanced share of what&#8217;s produced by a agency team, and then crowdsource some special projects, if fit.</p>
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		<title>By: edward boches</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/should-you-crowdsource-even-if-you%e2%80%99re-only-gonna-get-crap/comment-page-1#comment-2589</link>
		<dc:creator>edward boches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2787#comment-2589</guid>
		<description>Armando:
Forrester is full of insight, but they don&#039;t tell the whole story either. Look at the YouTube stats.  Look at Feed 2009 from Razorfish. Go spend some time with people under 25. And by the way, it used to be one percent (90/9/1) as recently as a year or two ago.  So change accelerates. And if those 10 percent are the influencers or potential influencers, they may be all that matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Armando:<br />
Forrester is full of insight, but they don&#8217;t tell the whole story either. Look at the YouTube stats.  Look at Feed 2009 from Razorfish. Go spend some time with people under 25. And by the way, it used to be one percent (90/9/1) as recently as a year or two ago.  So change accelerates. And if those 10 percent are the influencers or potential influencers, they may be all that matters.</p>
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		<title>By: Armando Alves</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/should-you-crowdsource-even-if-you%e2%80%99re-only-gonna-get-crap/comment-page-1#comment-2586</link>
		<dc:creator>Armando Alves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2787#comment-2586</guid>
		<description>Generalizing as in &quot;they are already creating&quot; is bollocks. Get any Forrester technographics report and you realized that only about 10% of them are &quot;creating&quot;.

The folks that are really creating something of decent quality are already working in creative industry.

Would you like to crowdsource the pants you&#039;re wearing?
.-= Armando Alves&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ASourceOfInspiration/~3/1uclrHySiyI/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Shameless PromoTion: Sapo Pond&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generalizing as in &#8220;they are already creating&#8221; is bollocks. Get any Forrester technographics report and you realized that only about 10% of them are &#8220;creating&#8221;.</p>
<p>The folks that are really creating something of decent quality are already working in creative industry.</p>
<p>Would you like to crowdsource the pants you&#8217;re wearing?<br />
.-= Armando Alves&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ASourceOfInspiration/~3/1uclrHySiyI/" rel="nofollow">Shameless PromoTion: Sapo Pond</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce DeBoer</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/should-you-crowdsource-even-if-you%e2%80%99re-only-gonna-get-crap/comment-page-1#comment-2578</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce DeBoer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 04:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2787#comment-2578</guid>
		<description>Yes, crowdsource if you can make it more than an event.  

If the plan is to crowdsource a logo because it get&#039;s a small group of folks involved - forget it - that&#039;s crap. 

If your can engage the crowd in a meaningful way by immersing your product in culture - you&#039;d be crazy not to.

Crowdsourcing needs to be something more than a cheaper way to execute a traditional approach.
.-= Bruce DeBoer&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PermissionToSuck/~3/mEV6uqQyNUo/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;“We Are Strip Mining Our Childrens’ Minds”&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, crowdsource if you can make it more than an event.  </p>
<p>If the plan is to crowdsource a logo because it get&#8217;s a small group of folks involved &#8211; forget it &#8211; that&#8217;s crap. </p>
<p>If your can engage the crowd in a meaningful way by immersing your product in culture &#8211; you&#8217;d be crazy not to.</p>
<p>Crowdsourcing needs to be something more than a cheaper way to execute a traditional approach.<br />
.-= Bruce DeBoer&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PermissionToSuck/~3/mEV6uqQyNUo/" rel="nofollow">“We Are Strip Mining Our Childrens’ Minds”</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Kunz</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/should-you-crowdsource-even-if-you%e2%80%99re-only-gonna-get-crap/comment-page-1#comment-2577</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Kunz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 04:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2787#comment-2577</guid>
		<description>Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Agencies fear crowdsourcing because it is 50% as good with 500 times more choice. If you do the math, that&#039;s scary, because choice is something agencies typically don&#039;t provide clients, and the value in that formula tips in crowdsourcing&#039;s direction.

Anyone who&#039;s been through the ad process knows that strategy meetings lead to offsite research and huddled design work and more client updates and a big funnel of ideas carefully constructed to 2-3 creative execution choices. By the time the actual campaign approaches implementation people with far too much groupthink and nuance have built subtlety that often does not work. Agencies are reluctant to go back and recut things because that kills profits; clients are enamored with the logicfest that led to the idea, so won&#039;t admit their off track. Like the blind leading the blind, they all pat each other on the back and head to market. &quot;You&#039;re brilliant! No you are!&quot; Like a blog post with too many back-slapping attaboys, we get ads everyone on the team loves with surreal images that don&#039;t read, copy that doesn&#039;t pop, and consumers scratching their heads.

So agencies should be scared by crowdsourcing. If I could get 500 times the ideas of an agency&#039;s 3 outputs, most half as good, I&#039;d bet a few might be far better. I don&#039;t think agencies should fight back by joining crowds or mocking them; instead, they might be better suited learning to offer clients more choice.
.-= Ben Kunz&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thoughtgadgets.com/2009/11/this-esquire-download-should-take-only.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This Esquire download should take only 5 minutes&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Short answer: Yes.</p>
<p>Long answer: Agencies fear crowdsourcing because it is 50% as good with 500 times more choice. If you do the math, that&#8217;s scary, because choice is something agencies typically don&#8217;t provide clients, and the value in that formula tips in crowdsourcing&#8217;s direction.</p>
<p>Anyone who&#8217;s been through the ad process knows that strategy meetings lead to offsite research and huddled design work and more client updates and a big funnel of ideas carefully constructed to 2-3 creative execution choices. By the time the actual campaign approaches implementation people with far too much groupthink and nuance have built subtlety that often does not work. Agencies are reluctant to go back and recut things because that kills profits; clients are enamored with the logicfest that led to the idea, so won&#8217;t admit their off track. Like the blind leading the blind, they all pat each other on the back and head to market. &#8220;You&#8217;re brilliant! No you are!&#8221; Like a blog post with too many back-slapping attaboys, we get ads everyone on the team loves with surreal images that don&#8217;t read, copy that doesn&#8217;t pop, and consumers scratching their heads.</p>
<p>So agencies should be scared by crowdsourcing. If I could get 500 times the ideas of an agency&#8217;s 3 outputs, most half as good, I&#8217;d bet a few might be far better. I don&#8217;t think agencies should fight back by joining crowds or mocking them; instead, they might be better suited learning to offer clients more choice.<br />
.-= Ben Kunz&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://www.thoughtgadgets.com/2009/11/this-esquire-download-should-take-only.html" rel="nofollow">This Esquire download should take only 5 minutes</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: edward boches</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/should-you-crowdsource-even-if-you%e2%80%99re-only-gonna-get-crap/comment-page-1#comment-2576</link>
		<dc:creator>edward boches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2787#comment-2576</guid>
		<description>Learning to manage the process, curate the content and reward the participants are key.  A lot of work, but with the right systems (check out http://tongal.com which has a great model) you can get it right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Learning to manage the process, curate the content and reward the participants are key.  A lot of work, but with the right systems (check out <a href="http://tongal.com" rel="nofollow">http://tongal.com</a> which has a great model) you can get it right.</p>
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		<title>By: edward boches</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/should-you-crowdsource-even-if-you%e2%80%99re-only-gonna-get-crap/comment-page-1#comment-2575</link>
		<dc:creator>edward boches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2787#comment-2575</guid>
		<description>Totally agree.  We are trying to replicate much of what you refer to in http://thenextgreatgeneration.com  Actionable content, rewarding the crowd, providing constant feedback, putting crowd to good use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally agree.  We are trying to replicate much of what you refer to in <a href="http://thenextgreatgeneration.com" rel="nofollow">http://thenextgreatgeneration.com</a>  Actionable content, rewarding the crowd, providing constant feedback, putting crowd to good use.</p>
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		<title>By: edward boches</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/should-you-crowdsource-even-if-you%e2%80%99re-only-gonna-get-crap/comment-page-1#comment-2574</link>
		<dc:creator>edward boches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2787#comment-2574</guid>
		<description>Eamon, 
You have the right attitude for sure. As my friend Alex Bogusky says, everyone is creative.  Or can be. It&#039;s not an exclusive club.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eamon,<br />
You have the right attitude for sure. As my friend Alex Bogusky says, everyone is creative.  Or can be. It&#8217;s not an exclusive club.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Shatuck</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/should-you-crowdsource-even-if-you%e2%80%99re-only-gonna-get-crap/comment-page-1#comment-2573</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Shatuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2787#comment-2573</guid>
		<description>Interesting discussion.

To me, crowdsouricing is a good idea if you want to either:

A) Generate as many ideas as possible as fast as possible. And why not? In the early stages of developing a marketing campaign, more ideas are better than fewer. Sadly, no one seems to have a good idea for how to pay the crowd. Once you have your idea, I think execution and sustain should be done by a consistent team.

B) Engage your audience. This is as old as the hills and the internet just makes it easier. The only real risk nowadays is that you become overloaded with feedback and can&#039;t decide how to respond!

Jeff
.-= Jeff Shatuck&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cerebellumblues.com/blog/2009/11/18/those-were-the-days-a-tale-of-living-for-the-music-friendshi.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Those were the days. A tale of living for the music, friendship and finding the holy grail of bootlegs, Bob Dylan&#039;s Ten of Swords.&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting discussion.</p>
<p>To me, crowdsouricing is a good idea if you want to either:</p>
<p>A) Generate as many ideas as possible as fast as possible. And why not? In the early stages of developing a marketing campaign, more ideas are better than fewer. Sadly, no one seems to have a good idea for how to pay the crowd. Once you have your idea, I think execution and sustain should be done by a consistent team.</p>
<p>B) Engage your audience. This is as old as the hills and the internet just makes it easier. The only real risk nowadays is that you become overloaded with feedback and can&#8217;t decide how to respond!</p>
<p>Jeff<br />
.-= Jeff Shatuck&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://www.cerebellumblues.com/blog/2009/11/18/those-were-the-days-a-tale-of-living-for-the-music-friendshi.html" rel="nofollow">Those were the days. A tale of living for the music, friendship and finding the holy grail of bootlegs, Bob Dylan&#8217;s Ten of Swords.</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Ally Polly</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/should-you-crowdsource-even-if-you%e2%80%99re-only-gonna-get-crap/comment-page-1#comment-2572</link>
		<dc:creator>Ally Polly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=2787#comment-2572</guid>
		<description>Agencies have been using crowds in the form of focus groups for decades. Getting public opinion and consumer insight is valuable but only if you do something actionable with it. The best crowdsourcing in my opinion is connected right up to R &amp;D.

TV Networks turned to reality programming with amateurs and no budgets and yes, it yielded crap.
Scripted shows with A list actors and writers have been too costly-   as has the process within the advertising industry. Those of us who believe in crowdsourcing ( and I do) need to be certain that the crowd is put to good use-  that the work and ideas are actionable, that the business model is sustainable and scalable, and that the talent is rewarded properly. So, invite the crowd to the party if you choose, but be sure your expectations are realistic and the deliverables will be valued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agencies have been using crowds in the form of focus groups for decades. Getting public opinion and consumer insight is valuable but only if you do something actionable with it. The best crowdsourcing in my opinion is connected right up to R &amp;D.</p>
<p>TV Networks turned to reality programming with amateurs and no budgets and yes, it yielded crap.<br />
Scripted shows with A list actors and writers have been too costly-   as has the process within the advertising industry. Those of us who believe in crowdsourcing ( and I do) need to be certain that the crowd is put to good use-  that the work and ideas are actionable, that the business model is sustainable and scalable, and that the talent is rewarded properly. So, invite the crowd to the party if you choose, but be sure your expectations are realistic and the deliverables will be valued.</p>
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