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	<title>Comments on: Gary Vaynerchuk VS Lee Clow:  the match of the century</title>
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	<link>http://edwardboches.com/gary-vaynerchuk-vs-lee-clow-the-match-of-the-century</link>
	<description>Marketing ideas for navigating a consumer driven world</description>
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		<title>By: Desiree</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/gary-vaynerchuk-vs-lee-clow-the-match-of-the-century/comment-page-1#comment-5132</link>
		<dc:creator>Desiree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 17:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=384#comment-5132</guid>
		<description>I love looking back at history and review the state of the day. I first met Gary in Florida in February 2008 - he was amazing then. He&#039;s just more experienced and more revered now - I don&#039;t think he&#039;s changed much and that&#039;s what social media can share that authenticity.

Even though professionally I&#039;m from started in the same stables as Lee, that is very 20th century, when we didn&#039;t have digital natives and the need or means to be social on a large scale as we do today.

For me Gary Vee has proven how all of us can use social media for business - even with varying results - we can garner attention, engage with our audiences and monetize our brands.

Looking forward to seeing new and innovative ways of using digital media from instinct rather than from textbook!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love looking back at history and review the state of the day. I first met Gary in Florida in February 2008 &#8211; he was amazing then. He&#8217;s just more experienced and more revered now &#8211; I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s changed much and that&#8217;s what social media can share that authenticity.</p>
<p>Even though professionally I&#8217;m from started in the same stables as Lee, that is very 20th century, when we didn&#8217;t have digital natives and the need or means to be social on a large scale as we do today.</p>
<p>For me Gary Vee has proven how all of us can use social media for business &#8211; even with varying results &#8211; we can garner attention, engage with our audiences and monetize our brands.</p>
<p>Looking forward to seeing new and innovative ways of using digital media from instinct rather than from textbook!</p>
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		<title>By: The New Yorker and Gary Vaynerchuk &#124; Creativity_Unbound</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/gary-vaynerchuk-vs-lee-clow-the-match-of-the-century/comment-page-1#comment-5111</link>
		<dc:creator>The New Yorker and Gary Vaynerchuk &#124; Creativity_Unbound</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=384#comment-5111</guid>
		<description>[...] You might be interested in a post I wrote about Gary Vaynerchuk and Lee Clow a little over a year ago.  Let me know who you think wins.  Might be fun to see if a year has [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You might be interested in a post I wrote about Gary Vaynerchuk and Lee Clow a little over a year ago.  Let me know who you think wins.  Might be fun to see if a year has [...]</p>
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		<title>By: edward boches</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/gary-vaynerchuk-vs-lee-clow-the-match-of-the-century/comment-page-1#comment-1035</link>
		<dc:creator>edward boches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=384#comment-1035</guid>
		<description>Jason,
Great comments.  Check out John Moore&#039;s post at http://mullen.com  Addresses this very subject.  Social media is everywhere and nowhere.  I also agree that Lee would be all over this stuff, as mentioned in previous comment.  BTW, I am a follower of Acme Screw.  They are awesome content generators and engagers.  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason,<br />
Great comments.  Check out John Moore&#8217;s post at <a href="http://mullen.com" rel="nofollow">http://mullen.com</a>  Addresses this very subject.  Social media is everywhere and nowhere.  I also agree that Lee would be all over this stuff, as mentioned in previous comment.  BTW, I am a follower of Acme Screw.  They are awesome content generators and engagers.  <img src='http://edwardboches.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: edward boches</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/gary-vaynerchuk-vs-lee-clow-the-match-of-the-century/comment-page-1#comment-1033</link>
		<dc:creator>edward boches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=384#comment-1033</guid>
		<description>Wow, this is great.  I wrote this post a long time ago and now the conversation is back.  JP, again, hard to disagree with your personal examples, or the value of the iPhone, or the tv commercials that so brilliantly present it.  BTW, I saw the commercials online because I don&#039;t watch tv commercials. I make them now and then but hate watching them.  I can&#039;t be any more articulate than Christine, so I won&#039;t try.  Don&#039;t know if you know anything about Gary (and btw, he is just an example.) Built a $100 million company from $4 million start.  Signed a multi million dollar book contract.  Makes six or more figures a year speaking.  Sells out all his gigs.  Has hundreds of thousands of loyal followers.  Don&#039;t know if you know the story of Lemonade the movie.  See this post. http://bit.ly/g8Be4  Don&#039;t know if you know the Best Buy story, or the Obama getting elected president story, etc.  But they are all social media at its best.  Also, I don&#039;t know Lee, but I do know for a fact if he had started his career today, he&#039;d be all over this stuff.  He&#039;s be inventing in it, creating in it, raising the bar of creativity in it, and inspiring others to do the same.  Also, I never said this won&#039;t look infantile when the real deal comes.  Just that there are amazing opportunities here right now.  To neglect them is insane.  And, finally, Lee was just an example.  A prop I exploited to make my point :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, this is great.  I wrote this post a long time ago and now the conversation is back.  JP, again, hard to disagree with your personal examples, or the value of the iPhone, or the tv commercials that so brilliantly present it.  BTW, I saw the commercials online because I don&#8217;t watch tv commercials. I make them now and then but hate watching them.  I can&#8217;t be any more articulate than Christine, so I won&#8217;t try.  Don&#8217;t know if you know anything about Gary (and btw, he is just an example.) Built a $100 million company from $4 million start.  Signed a multi million dollar book contract.  Makes six or more figures a year speaking.  Sells out all his gigs.  Has hundreds of thousands of loyal followers.  Don&#8217;t know if you know the story of Lemonade the movie.  See this post. <a href="http://bit.ly/g8Be4" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/g8Be4</a>  Don&#8217;t know if you know the Best Buy story, or the Obama getting elected president story, etc.  But they are all social media at its best.  Also, I don&#8217;t know Lee, but I do know for a fact if he had started his career today, he&#8217;d be all over this stuff.  He&#8217;s be inventing in it, creating in it, raising the bar of creativity in it, and inspiring others to do the same.  Also, I never said this won&#8217;t look infantile when the real deal comes.  Just that there are amazing opportunities here right now.  To neglect them is insane.  And, finally, Lee was just an example.  A prop I exploited to make my point <img src='http://edwardboches.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jason Fox</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/gary-vaynerchuk-vs-lee-clow-the-match-of-the-century/comment-page-1#comment-1032</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=384#comment-1032</guid>
		<description>If someone can point me to an article about Lee wherein he denounces social media, that&#039;d be great. Otherwise, I can&#039;t help wondering why so many people assume someone of his creative stature would just stick to old media. And yes, I realize Lee is really just a figurehead in Edward&#039;s original post, but many comments fail to make that distinction.

Personally, I think social media does and will continue to have its place in the media mix. But I also think a fair number of marketers over-estimate just how &quot;engaged&quot; consumers really want to be with brands. Not everyone is Nike or Apple or Harley-Davidson. I have no desire to follow Acme Screw Company on Twitter. As always, the media mix depends on the brand and its target. Use what works, jettison what doesn&#039;t. 

And if I had to bet, I&#039;d still bet on Lee.
.-= Jason Fox&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.adhole.com/?p=292&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mmmmmmmm, Donuts&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If someone can point me to an article about Lee wherein he denounces social media, that&#8217;d be great. Otherwise, I can&#8217;t help wondering why so many people assume someone of his creative stature would just stick to old media. And yes, I realize Lee is really just a figurehead in Edward&#8217;s original post, but many comments fail to make that distinction.</p>
<p>Personally, I think social media does and will continue to have its place in the media mix. But I also think a fair number of marketers over-estimate just how &#8220;engaged&#8221; consumers really want to be with brands. Not everyone is Nike or Apple or Harley-Davidson. I have no desire to follow Acme Screw Company on Twitter. As always, the media mix depends on the brand and its target. Use what works, jettison what doesn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>And if I had to bet, I&#8217;d still bet on Lee.<br />
.-= Jason Fox&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://www.adhole.com/?p=292" rel="nofollow">Mmmmmmmm, Donuts</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine Peterson</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/gary-vaynerchuk-vs-lee-clow-the-match-of-the-century/comment-page-1#comment-1031</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=384#comment-1031</guid>
		<description>Whoa, whoa, whoa.  You can&#039;t just dismiss social marketing efforts based upon your distaste for Starbucks and Facebook.  Yes, there are hundreds of useless apps out there.  Yes, it requires a strong strategy to break through the clutter.  Yes, everyone is still trying to figure out how to best leverage social, making mistakes, and experimenting.  But social media is shaking up the advertising world because it&#039;s changing the way that the public accesses information, it provides the possibility of a brand to directly interact with its consumer and vice versa, it&#039;s changing the way that the world communicates.  You can&#039;t ignore that and you should want to find a way to be a part of it.

If you want examples of good social marketing, look at what Mullen has done with Olympus&#039;s release of the E-P1, look at companies that integrate social efforts in congruence with their other PR efforts like Tide&#039;s strategy with mom bloggers, look at what small companies like Kogi BBQ have accomplished exclusively through Twitter.  Maybe the high-buzz promotions like My Starbucks Idea will fade away, but social is quickly becoming an integrated part of marketing in many ways.  

Social media is about becoming a part of your own community.  That&#039;s the difference between Gary Vee and Lee Clow.  As with anything, we will get better at it with time.  Don&#039;t be so dismissive or you could be missing out on some huge opportunities.
.-= Christine Peterson&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/captain_pete/statuses/3386581668&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;captain_pete: I love the word &quot;snarky&quot;&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoa, whoa, whoa.  You can&#8217;t just dismiss social marketing efforts based upon your distaste for Starbucks and Facebook.  Yes, there are hundreds of useless apps out there.  Yes, it requires a strong strategy to break through the clutter.  Yes, everyone is still trying to figure out how to best leverage social, making mistakes, and experimenting.  But social media is shaking up the advertising world because it&#8217;s changing the way that the public accesses information, it provides the possibility of a brand to directly interact with its consumer and vice versa, it&#8217;s changing the way that the world communicates.  You can&#8217;t ignore that and you should want to find a way to be a part of it.</p>
<p>If you want examples of good social marketing, look at what Mullen has done with Olympus&#8217;s release of the E-P1, look at companies that integrate social efforts in congruence with their other PR efforts like Tide&#8217;s strategy with mom bloggers, look at what small companies like Kogi BBQ have accomplished exclusively through Twitter.  Maybe the high-buzz promotions like My Starbucks Idea will fade away, but social is quickly becoming an integrated part of marketing in many ways.  </p>
<p>Social media is about becoming a part of your own community.  That&#8217;s the difference between Gary Vee and Lee Clow.  As with anything, we will get better at it with time.  Don&#8217;t be so dismissive or you could be missing out on some huge opportunities.<br />
.-= Christine Peterson&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://twitter.com/captain_pete/statuses/3386581668" rel="nofollow">captain_pete: I love the word &quot;snarky&quot;</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/gary-vaynerchuk-vs-lee-clow-the-match-of-the-century/comment-page-1#comment-1030</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=384#comment-1030</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Edward - I didn&#039;t miss it - I just don&#039;t like it.  I also don&#039;t think it will last in its present form.

This is exactly the mistake that Starbucks made - and the reason I&#039;ve hit a wall (no pun intended) with Facebook.

Wither Starbucks?  I don&#039;t need cute.  I don&#039;t need my name on a cup.  I don&#039;t need throw-away small talk from a barista.  I don&#039;t need tryouts for some BravoTV barista reality show on my way to the office.  I need coffee that makes me want to drink more.  They still have it, except you need a mental machete to find it.  Taking on water, they have made a recent token attempt at being coffee-forward, but it&#039;s a weak one.  

Facebook is a neat idea.  Very creative.  Never done before (OK never done since the salad days of the W.E.L.L.) But for me to weed through the barrage of personal flotsam and advertising jetsam in order to pluck the occasional heartstring or get a shock from the honest connection of ideas has reached a tipping point.  Unfortunately that tipping point is one that drives people from a clear message.  Again with the mental machete.  

I use an iPod Touch.  First piece of new-new technology I&#039;ve fully adopted in a long time, and I&#039;ve beta&#039;d and early-adopted them all.  I didn&#039;t buy it because of someone cyber-shilling about it.  I finally bought it because one night, alone on my TV, there was a white screen and a focused set of fingers showing me things I&#039;d never dreamed of seeing on a handheld.  One focused ad.  They now have several flavors of it.  Ditto the iPhone.  Focus, clear message, simplicity.  Broken model?  All those Web 2.0-ers would kill for Apple numbers.  

&quot;Way less money&quot; is not getting the audience numbers clients are used to - it&#039;s getting many smaller collections of followers - nanomarketing - who are beginning to realize the original false fear of nanotechnology - they are becoming a grey goo.  Facebook is a great example of this.  People get sick of the ad-driven apps faster than anything else on there.  They are the first to go when people realize the clutter.  

There might be a paradigm-shifting (sorry!) post-2.0 ad model - but the present is the first wave and will look positively cacophonous and infantile when the real deal arrives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Edward &#8211; I didn&#8217;t miss it &#8211; I just don&#8217;t like it.  I also don&#8217;t think it will last in its present form.</p>
<p>This is exactly the mistake that Starbucks made &#8211; and the reason I&#8217;ve hit a wall (no pun intended) with Facebook.</p>
<p>Wither Starbucks?  I don&#8217;t need cute.  I don&#8217;t need my name on a cup.  I don&#8217;t need throw-away small talk from a barista.  I don&#8217;t need tryouts for some BravoTV barista reality show on my way to the office.  I need coffee that makes me want to drink more.  They still have it, except you need a mental machete to find it.  Taking on water, they have made a recent token attempt at being coffee-forward, but it&#8217;s a weak one.  </p>
<p>Facebook is a neat idea.  Very creative.  Never done before (OK never done since the salad days of the W.E.L.L.) But for me to weed through the barrage of personal flotsam and advertising jetsam in order to pluck the occasional heartstring or get a shock from the honest connection of ideas has reached a tipping point.  Unfortunately that tipping point is one that drives people from a clear message.  Again with the mental machete.  </p>
<p>I use an iPod Touch.  First piece of new-new technology I&#8217;ve fully adopted in a long time, and I&#8217;ve beta&#8217;d and early-adopted them all.  I didn&#8217;t buy it because of someone cyber-shilling about it.  I finally bought it because one night, alone on my TV, there was a white screen and a focused set of fingers showing me things I&#8217;d never dreamed of seeing on a handheld.  One focused ad.  They now have several flavors of it.  Ditto the iPhone.  Focus, clear message, simplicity.  Broken model?  All those Web 2.0-ers would kill for Apple numbers.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Way less money&#8221; is not getting the audience numbers clients are used to &#8211; it&#8217;s getting many smaller collections of followers &#8211; nanomarketing &#8211; who are beginning to realize the original false fear of nanotechnology &#8211; they are becoming a grey goo.  Facebook is a great example of this.  People get sick of the ad-driven apps faster than anything else on there.  They are the first to go when people realize the clutter.  </p>
<p>There might be a paradigm-shifting (sorry!) post-2.0 ad model &#8211; but the present is the first wave and will look positively cacophonous and infantile when the real deal arrives.</p>
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		<title>By: edward boches</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/gary-vaynerchuk-vs-lee-clow-the-match-of-the-century/comment-page-1#comment-1027</link>
		<dc:creator>edward boches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=384#comment-1027</guid>
		<description>JP:
Great comment and clear articulation of your point.  (And I am a Lee fan from way back, truth be told.)  But you miss part of the point.  Like it or not we have moved into an age where there are more ways to build a brand than the tried and true traditional give all your $$ to an agency.  BBH Labs, Mullen, Zeus Jones, UnderCurrent et. al. are all, in their own way, trying to reinvent the model because it is broken.  And, if you&#039;re in the business, you know that clients are tired of the bs, the excessive costs, etc. and are demanding new solutions.  Social media, Gary V, conversation, community, crowdsourcing, etc all represent new ways of doing things for way less money.  I agree that we will always need what Lee represents -- big ideas and creative genius -- even more as the conversations get louder and the communities larger.  But, we won&#039;t need his model -- big tv, media budgets, push out messages; and I&#039;m sure he would agree, innovator that he is -- because we can develop a new one.  Which just might be doing it ourselves, like Gary.  The difference between Gary and an old school pitch man is that Gary engages, embraces, shares, interacts and builds community, not just audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JP:<br />
Great comment and clear articulation of your point.  (And I am a Lee fan from way back, truth be told.)  But you miss part of the point.  Like it or not we have moved into an age where there are more ways to build a brand than the tried and true traditional give all your $$ to an agency.  BBH Labs, Mullen, Zeus Jones, UnderCurrent et. al. are all, in their own way, trying to reinvent the model because it is broken.  And, if you&#8217;re in the business, you know that clients are tired of the bs, the excessive costs, etc. and are demanding new solutions.  Social media, Gary V, conversation, community, crowdsourcing, etc all represent new ways of doing things for way less money.  I agree that we will always need what Lee represents &#8212; big ideas and creative genius &#8212; even more as the conversations get louder and the communities larger.  But, we won&#8217;t need his model &#8212; big tv, media budgets, push out messages; and I&#8217;m sure he would agree, innovator that he is &#8212; because we can develop a new one.  Which just might be doing it ourselves, like Gary.  The difference between Gary and an old school pitch man is that Gary engages, embraces, shares, interacts and builds community, not just audience.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/gary-vaynerchuk-vs-lee-clow-the-match-of-the-century/comment-page-1#comment-1025</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=384#comment-1025</guid>
		<description>Lee.  Period.  The implication here is that you may have found the &quot;Web 2.0 Lee Clow&quot; in Gary.  You decidedly did not.  You found the love child of Max Headroom and Billy Mays, a web-enabled pitchman.  The web is still at the flysheet stage.  Not much can stand out in that environment.  Web 2.0 and its democratization of promotion has resulted in a sea of personality-forward near misses.  The reason Lee Clow is not a household name is because he does not need to be a household name, his clients/their products do.  If there is a web-lee-clow you won&#039;t know him/her until the content is forward and you dig deeper.  They will not be standing in front of their work, but behind it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lee.  Period.  The implication here is that you may have found the &#8220;Web 2.0 Lee Clow&#8221; in Gary.  You decidedly did not.  You found the love child of Max Headroom and Billy Mays, a web-enabled pitchman.  The web is still at the flysheet stage.  Not much can stand out in that environment.  Web 2.0 and its democratization of promotion has resulted in a sea of personality-forward near misses.  The reason Lee Clow is not a household name is because he does not need to be a household name, his clients/their products do.  If there is a web-lee-clow you won&#8217;t know him/her until the content is forward and you dig deeper.  They will not be standing in front of their work, but behind it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Clow's Beard</title>
		<link>http://edwardboches.com/gary-vaynerchuk-vs-lee-clow-the-match-of-the-century/comment-page-1#comment-586</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Clow's Beard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwardboches.com/?p=384#comment-586</guid>
		<description>The Beard is now up to 350+ followers, thank you.
.-= Lee Clow&#039;s Beard&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/leeclowsbeard/statuses/2191714309&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;leeclowsbeard: Great ideas can come from anywhere. Even creatives.&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Beard is now up to 350+ followers, thank you.<br />
.-= Lee Clow&#8217;s Beard&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://twitter.com/leeclowsbeard/statuses/2191714309" rel="nofollow">leeclowsbeard: Great ideas can come from anywhere. Even creatives.</a> =-.</p>
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